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« Part V: Phariseeism, Jonesianism, and Questions | Main | Blessed be the Name of the Lord: The Katelyn Grace Story »

March 20, 2008


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Anonymous God Seeker

Yes, I would say that BJIII embarrassing the University, students, faculty, staff, and graduates is a huge understatement. I am positively mortified over his graceless, thoughtless, illogical speech. (And I was SUCH a supporter!)

As far as their ethics, money rules. I believe that time will reveal some pretty shady, unethical treatment of some recently retired faculty members. I personally know of some who are not able to make it financially when everything sorted out about their retirement package. It was all done in secrecy and agreements changed; and even after "The Promise" and "Forget Me Not," they have still left some faithful long-time faculty members practically destitute. They have caused huge griefs to many of God's children in this area and many others. And especially huge are the griefs of those vulnerable employees who gave themselves unselfishly to the university. It seems that these unwaveringly faithful were exactly the people who stood to lose the most and were taken great advantage of.

I know who Camille and Grant are. They didn't deserve this either. I wish all the people hurt by Bob Jones's unchristian ways would publicly tell their story. We'd all be very, very shocked.

Oh, and as far as "daddy" running the place. Don't really know what to think about that. I know that a couple of things did actually change. For instance, the front campus entrance that was so dangerous and did cause much personal and physical damage (at least one quadriplegic because of it and many, many other serious accidents), was quasi-fixed. I understood BJIII to be STRONGLY opposed to those safety modifications despite begging and pleading from his underlings for years. That was one of the first things Stephen did........But consider this little fact: "daddy" never even moved his office at the time of the transition. He still kept his same huge executive suite in the exact same place. So for that reason, I can't believe that much actually changed, except maybe some superficial facade improvements.

Although Stephen may be more careful with his speech and may actually be a nicer person all around, I think he's inherited a pretty big mess. It will be interesting to watch him navigate the dangerous waters.

Carry on, Mark. I'm still working on getting over the whole BJU thing. They said they spoke for God. They believed they were God. I believed it too. But in actuality I think God had little to do with it all. I'm in recovery. But it's slower than I would have thought, I guess because I was there a really, really long time and they were practically my whole life. I'm having to rethink everything, and I'm just a little too old for that. But praise the Lord I have the opportunity. Many there will never have the chance we have. Some day soon I will blog about my horrifying experiences. It might just help the healing process. God bless you and your family!

Editor's comments, I don't normally publish comments from anonymous people. I did make an exception because these comments. I followed with comments of my own:
GF, Thanks for comments. Beware lest any man spoil you through vain deceit and philosophies... What a timely warning. I recall a phrase Thurman Wisdom used in the PCC controvery (his letter to PCC is in the BJU Weblog), in which he decried "what might have been" had PCC acted thus and such. What might have been had a different spirit reigned at BJU?

I'm sorry that I went there because I wonder also wonder what was true out of all that I was taught. Look at the way the "Bible policy" of interracial dating was handled. If this was the way "faith and practice" were determined, how can we have confidence in such things as separation (from those terrible compromising evangelicals), personal standards, church governance, biblical qualifications for leadership, eschatology, soteriology, etc., etc.? Were our professors men and women of true conviction who taught what they truly believed from their hearts, spirits, and minds? How many have, unlike Camille and Grant, been quiet and 'gone along to get along' and sacrificed principle on the altar of expediency in order to preserved their "ministry" at BJU. Where was the "dialogue," the well-reasoned argumentation characteristic of Paul and Christ as they went into the synagogues and reasoned with their brethren? We skipped that at BJU and simply accepted what the Joneses taught.

How sad, GF, to hear that some people have invested their entire lives into BJU and don't find out until they are ready to be let out to pasture the deviousness of the leadership of BJU. I encouraged Walt Fremont to take a stand against these things years ago. I told him that he and Trudy and Gill would become personna non grata within the Greenville/BJU/Wilds orbit but at least he would be able to say that he played the man and acted on principle rather than blind loyalty and pragmatic expediency. He ignored my pleas and turned on me like a viscous, cornered dog. He was my favorite professor and the second most influential man in my life. All I could think of was what manner of people BJU must produce.

Feel free to post comments if it makes you feel better. Read Charles Underwood's letter to Bob III on the blog, People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck, and some of Elizabeth Elliot's books on God's matchless grace.



I find your blog and your comments interesting. I am a graduate of BJU and I too see many shortcomings. However, I think you are living in a fantasy world if you think BJU is anything but a flawed human organization that strives to uphold scripture. It is amazing to me that you can publicly ridicule BJU and ignore all the public colleges and universities and give them a free pass. Sure BJU has many shortcomings. Sure there are injustices. I dont really care for fundamentalism in its current form - I think in many areas they have lost their way. I am reformed and find myself at odds there as well. That does not mean however that I throw the baby out with the bathwater. I live in SC. I could complain about Clemson, University of SC and the College of Charleston all day long. There is very little that I agree with in their approach to education and to their culture - it is in many ways pure evil. I would not want to send my son or daughter to live in the dorms at these schools as I would be totally giving them over to the wicked philosophies and activities. My point is that all men are totally depraved with a total inability to please God in the natural state. Even regenerate men still have to struggle with the flesh and with their own heresies small as they may be. I understand your frustration with BJU completely. All I am saying is for you to see and understand that BJ is run by fallen human beings that fail over and over again. They do however believe the scriptures and seek to extol Christ. Keep in mind that David was a man after God's own heart, and look at him. The greatest men in scripture were rotten at heart. Their only righteousness was in Christ. Perhaps this helps in providing a bit of perspective.

The Squire

Perhaps this helps in providing a bit of perspective.

Posted by: KD | April 22, 2008 at 12:14 PM (from the preceeding comment)

Having work at BJU and spouse taught we too were surprised at the BJ culture. At first I thought it was a "southern thing" but as timed passed I came to question how BJ handled disiplne with the students as well as treatment of certain staff/ faculty folks. I can say that at times a "judgemental spirit" reigns and when PC/APC's get caught up in "doing right" many students suffer verbal attacks and are judged by peers whom think they were doing Jim Berg or Tony Millers work of seeking out the evil spirit in other dorm mates (mostly those who are not a part of the in-crowd).

While I was there two brothers got into a spat and both ran to the deans office charging one another with spiritual problems.
In their case I think it was more of an immature spirit and knowing that the first to cry wolf to the deans usually win.

When you use peers to watch over students of same age you are setting kids up for a fight. Twenty year olds do not judge hearts much better then the BJU deans did.

The use of tattle tales to help the deans control the dorms is not the way to handle problems. It created problems and most students at BJU have had run ins with over zealous kids trying to make bojo points with the leaders.

I think BJ needs to change their fundalmental approach to educating students and that may mean having Mr. Berg take his show down the road. IMHO


As a veteran staff employee of almost 15 years. My wife and I are ones who followed Gods call into "ministry" at BJU and yet found that ministry to be as callus and cold as any business. I can relate to your experience only as one who found my dream job and yet could not, with good conscience stay. You see, I began to think for myself and come to realize the "Grace Awakening" Chuck Swindoll taught and then looked around and saw grace stealers all around. I could not play the part of the “list checker” any longer and resigned from my director's position. I very much miss the good people I had the privilege to lead and work along side. I believe there are good people still there, but unable or unwilling to face the truth. I am sickened to hear of how others were mistreated and thrown out as though rubbish. I consider myself a recovering “fundamentalist”; I hope I will be able to get over it. I know there are those who think that is a cute trite saying, but my life is deeply scared by the fundamentalist dogma that stinks and steals joy. I will continue to try to get beyond it but I fear I will never be able to find a church home or group of Christians who really understand and care. May our Lord heal our broken hearts.


Dear DM,

I am so sorry for your broken heart. I, too, left BJones with a broken heart and a broken spirit. I remember walking across campus after having endured yet another encounter with Greg Olsen's cruelty. Every step I said "Never again, never again. If this is Christianity, I want no part of it !" Our Lord took me to a place far away and showed me His great, shining heart of kindness ~ There is healing. It will come and you will be wiser, too. We are pilgrims here; we seek a better city Whose Builder and Maker is God. Under His wings, DM ~

Love and kindness and hope, EL

Thanks for your kind comments. I have left that life far behind me.

My hope is that others will see that there is more to Christianity than Jonesianism.

Not sure who Greg Olsen is but, if he his a cruel religionist, I hope you are free of him and those like him.

Remember, the Old and New Testament records the evil done by many people. It names names and names deeds, both of which serve to make others "...ware also" as was the case when Paul cited people like Diotrophes and Alexander the coppersmith and those who did him "much evil".


ghostwriter girl

My friend's boyfriend said he had truthfully confirmed that bju used photo editing software to "put" skirts on girls wearing pants in on the cover of the bju "Preview." This was done to prevent loss of financial support or cause controversy amongst donors.

-I could not believe my ears when she told me....

Jessica Hales

Hi Camille :) You and Grant may remember me from BJU (maiden name: Jessica Lloyd) I came to BJU from a broken home in Southern Cal and all seemed right for me as a student there. The green house effect is powerful for building faith. All I knew about God I learned at BJU. And I loved getting involved on Student Body Council as President with Rob VanDenBerg both Junior and Senior years. So, like many who would die for Christ (upside down on a cross), I embraced everything that made me feel like I was pleasing God. My greenhouse was very supportive. I am thankful for my friends and the love I felt and the Bible verses and history I learned. I have shared only the great experiences I've had since graduating in 1991.
But a few years ago I received a letter stating I was no longer a Life Member of the Alumni Association. Someone had "talked" to the school and said "bla, bla, bla" about me. I called Jim Berg who I consider one of my greatest examples at school. I could not believe that "bla, bla" resulted in a letter cutting me off from "my foundation" (allow me to be dramatic :). Couldn't he just call and ask me, "Hey Jes, how are you doing? What's going on? How can we help?" Isn't this what our Christian family is about (and weren't we always taught to go to our brother first if we have a problem)? But apparently, I needed to do some tattle-taling in order to help my own case...Nevertheless, I think I'm reinstated. Not sure. Maybe not...after I write this.
I remember you and Grant well...So talented! Great people! I wish you well. If you're ever in Miami Beach, come visit! (If you're ok with bathing suits, that is :)


Any large institution has different issues, even Christian ones. To not acknowledge that denies the fundamental truth that men are sinners (not merely "imperfect") and will always have trouble keeping a "perfect" environment let alone one mildly successful, be it work or ministry or government.

I notice there is no mention of the blog author's name on the site (or it's carefully buried). It's very easy to post things behind the veil anonymity -- which is also called cowardice.

Mark Fitzhenry


Your comments on BJUweblog have been published.
I posted my own comments with yours.
Thank you for taking the time to visit.

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. --George S. Patton

A gentleman will rarely need a pistol. But if he does need one, he will need it very badly. Winston Churchill

One should always shoot as quickly as one can -- but no quicker. -- Jeff Cooper

Barbara Quinn

My response to KD's posting: "They do however believe the Scriptures and seek to extol Christ . " Christians can 'believe' something 'in a wrong way!' The fact that they elevate the KJV translation as much as they do, already borders on 'spiritual idolatry.' Also ' believing' something such as the Bible, for the cruel intent and purpose of shaming / blaming / accusing / and discouraging BJU students, is hardly what I would call' a 'Godly use of the Scriptures or professional behavior ! Also 'which' Christ exactly are they 'extolling at BJU?' The Christ of the New Testament, or a 'different christ '? A different christ remade in the image of their own, fallen, carnal, ignorant human nature and blinded minds? BJU is such a graceless place, that Christ can hardly be being extolled anywhere on the grounds! "The greatest men in scripture were rotten at heart." We're they 'all'? David repented. Read Psalm 51. And God said in Ezekiel that He was going to give people 'a new heart.' Mean, graceless hearts of fundamentalists at BJU aren't living with new hearts! So what happened to them, between their conversion experience , and now? Something doesn't seem to have 'taken' in their 'hearts' at or after 'conversion'. Why? Because they're so mean, cold, calculating, controlling and selfish! Is it possible that their 'conversion' wasn't 'real'? Or that it was merely 'a false religious experience' that did not produce the genuine fruit of a true believer who obeys the truth, a person, Jesus, by practicing the truth, by obeying what Jesus says. Like "The new commandment?" A conversion that did not make them 'a better person' but an even worse one, would that not be suspect? Romans 8 speaks of "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." Is the spirit of Christ meekness and humility? Or is it arrogance and superiority? Something to think about.I have always believed since my conversion 31 years ago, that Jesus Christ was a very humble man. I still believe that today. How I show that I believe that with a right belief, is that, I obey Jesus by practicing humility in my personal life and behavior. I do not turn it on and off. if it;s 'real' then it is 'worth' living every day. Consistently.


You might be surprised who is being terminated in 2012 in what is being termed "reorganization." Maybe as in "the emperor has no clothes"


Editor's comments:

Is Bob Jones III finally being fired?!! About time Stephen Jones started cleaning house...and, I couldn't think of a better place to start!

Seriously, I graduated in 1980 so I really don't know many of the current staff/faculty...

I do recall the story of the firing of a member of the Bible Faculty, Dr. Smith. Dr. Smith taught the majority of incoming freshmen New Testament Survey, a required course for all students back then. Dr. Smith was a trim, fit-looking fellow with a striking head of grey hair and a keen sense of humor. His wife was also completely grey and seemed to be a very nice person.

In the firing meeting, Dr. Smith was told he "was not 'fundamental' enough". Dr. Smith reportedly opened his Bible, spun it around, pushed his Bible across the table to his fundamentalist inquisitors from the BJU Bible Department, and said, "Show me where I am not 'fundamental' enough!"

Made for a bit of drama and an entertaining story but whether or not Dr. Smith was "fundamental enough", he was fired by the ones who judged him not "fundamental enough.

Since you are posting Anonymously, perhaps you could fill in the details.

I haven't posted for quite awhile...I am preparing a post re. Victory Baptist Church and its asst. preacher, BJU grad James Flowers and head preacher, Greg Powell, PCC grad.

Feel free to comment...details and some sort of authentication would be helpful.

Mark Fitzhenry

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