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« Do Bob Jones University, Bob Jones III, and the BJU Bible Faculty Practice Ethical Debate? | Main | Update »

July 20, 2007

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SR

Hi, I found your blog looking for like-minded people who are disturbed by the Bob Jones Cult, and have a couple general comments.

1)thanks for doing this
2)your posts are too long. after reading several paragraphs of any given post i'm not sure if your critque is a major one or a minor one or just a personal pet peeve.
3) i'm "stuck" in a BJU church right now (because I can't bring myself to be Reformed or a Southern Baptist, but who knows). Some things I've noticed about the Bob Jones Cult.

a) BJU controls/provides for graduates from cradle to grave. you could go your whole life in the coccoon of BJU-land and never encounter a real person or the real world. (BJU pre-school, BJU Academy or homeschool curriculum, BJU itself, BJU churches and missions. of which, of course, you should be a full-time employee and tell people you are "called to the ministry"--even my BJU pastor's wife considers herself called to the paying ministry, as she flashes her diamonds and jets around the world on "mission trip" vacations to visit her old BJU roommates.

b) Many of their rituals are Catholic inspired--as is BJU's art museum. Infant "dedications," "every head bowed, every eye closed" confessionals to the pastor. doxologies, etc.

c) Bob Jonesers are very clique-ish and cultish--like Masons. Regular church members can be ignored for years, but if a new BJU-er attends, he's automatically put in charge of the music service or some such. Anyone else in the church is persona non grata--this has been true in several BJU churches i attended.

Oh well, I ramble. Keep up the good work,
SR

SR

Oh almost forgot another BJU critique--the LEGALISM.
Hair must not touch the collar on men, but if it doesn't touch the collar on women you are a prostitute.

Had one BJU pastor tell my wife (who had short hair) that most female prostitutes in biblical times had short hair. To which I pointed out that most female prostitutes today have long hair--like his wife. So what's the point?

Our church now is legalistic about musical instruments (acoustic guitars are okay but not solid body guitars), women's tops (if you can see any kind of a 'shadow'--cleavage--it's ungodly), even which specific movies and radio shows you can listen to.

Someone help me not to go insane! We need a BJU-Anonymous group!

Jeff Dayhoff

I ran across this blog looking to reconnect with some old BJU alum. I would like to make a few brief comments:
1: I was not brain-washed by BJU. I took the excellent training I received and went out into the real world. I have never agreed with everything I heard as I believe in discernment that comes from God. No man is infallible.
2: I have run across me like yourself who get caught up in this mud-slinging who, in my humble opinion, would be much greater utilized by God with greater evangelistic endeavors and less divisive endeavors. Separating the chaff from the wheat will be done by God and our job should be to spread the Gospel("Good" News).
3: You clearly have an ax to grind and perhaps could move on with a more productive life if you seek out a good christian psychologist who can help you deal with the pain you carry with you.
4: I knew most of the men you listed in your rant and although I do not know every word they have said or have put in print, I recall them as men who clearly and overtly proclaimed their faith and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ.
5: We must be careful when we take on a cause such as yours, which you have obviously convinced yourself you are doing a great service, what the actual result will be. Are you helping or hurting the body of Christ? Could your efforts have better results if you redirected them to the lost and dying souls around us? It saddens me to see men who go down this path and as with most I'm certain you will attack me as weak or some other defensive posture, but I will pray for that you see the damage that you are doing in the name of "Christ" and exposing "eviL". All christians are sinners saved by grace and we should extend alittle of it to our brothers and sisters.

Jeff Dayhoff,

Thank you for your comments. No, I will not "attack" you, Jeff. I will simply observe that the main thrust of your defense of the BJU crowd consisted of nothing more substantive than to ignore the facts and recommend I see a "good christian psychologist".

I am always amazed at those who have come through the system at BJU, especially those who condemn those who point the Nathanic finger at the leadership within BJU-branded fundamentalism while ignoring and excusing as human the habitual lying, deception, duplicity, viciousness, etc., of fundamentalism's gurus.

The devils believe the Gospel of Christ, Jeff. I certainly would expect those who made their careers in fundamentalism to do no less.

You ability or willingness to see-no-evil and hear-no-evil does not change the fact that I (and, others) have seen and heard evil, confronted that evil, and noted a lack of repentance for that evil doing.

If you think I am a false accuser or in need of "a good christian psychologist", then at least display the fundamental ethics and fair-mindedness of detailing where I lied and where I failed to comprehend and internalize the reality of the true nature of BJU-styled leaven and religion.

Where you and I differ is in the fact that I have exercised a willingness to look at the words and actions of the men you gratuitously defend and compare their words and actions with Scripture.

You, in turn, have not cited one fact or one quote to support your position. Yes, it's easy to criticize. But, Jeff, what is your assessment of Bob Jones III's conduct and Christian character and leadership fitness as demonstrated between 1970 to 2000 with regard to his public handling of the interracial dating ban scam?

Bob Jones Jr. once told one of his critics: "Put up or shut up." Now, Jeff, that is not my spirit and I quote a Jones because I suspect that you, along with legions at BJU, revere him. But my real point is that I think you have an ethical obligation to reveal to our readers your considered opinion regarding the conduct of Bob Jones III, his words, and his actions, and demonstrate how his behavior advances the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is an example to the students he trains in word and deed. What say ye, Jeff Dayhoff?

Jeff, Bob Jones Jr. once asked, "Who appointed you the arbiter of all truth?" Again, that is not my spirit, Brother. But if you are going to engage in passive aggression by gratuitously branding me as a liar in need of psychological help, I would be crazy not to challenge your gratuitous judgment that 'all is as well as can be expected' within BJU-styled fundamentalism. I believe the leadership example and spirit at BJU indicates it is a sick sub-culture, a perversion of Christianity, and a source of dangerous leaven within the Body of Christ.

Jeff Dayhoff, you may have known every Jones and every influential leader at BJU. Bob Jones Sr. once preached at chapel, "You want to know how a man stands with God? You have only to ask him one question: 'What does he think of this school?'"

Like so many, you seem to be operating under a religious Jonesian duality. Jeff Dayhoff, a man's standing before God relies on his relationship with Christ, God's Word, and his treatment of his brethren. It is not, as you seem to think, based upon his relationship with BJU, you, your opinions, and how well you personally were treated by fundamentalist gurus.

I'm glad things went well for you. But how does that lead to the conclusion that others weren't treated in an evil-manner?

Your approach reminds me of the man caught in bed by his gullible wife while he was with another woman. He said, "Don't believe your eyes. Believe me!"

Jeff, I can't answer for you. However, I haven't been brain-washed to the extent that I think that a man's standing with God and his sanity depend on how he views BJU and the Joneses.

I like to think I am capable of determining whether or not a lie is a lie and whether or not a man is honest or dishonest. I like to think I am capable of determining if a man-made rule that is said to be "Bible policy" is truly supported in Scripture. I like to think I am capable of determining if the Joneses et. al. have been faithful or unfaithful to the Gospel of Christ or whether they have engaged in lying, duplicity, deception, Gentile authoritarianism, etc. My question for you, Jeff Dayoff is: Are you capable of doing the same? If so, now is the time to demonstrate the same.

I would suggest that before trying to undermine my credibility, show the readers where the facts in the BJUWeblog are wrong, where my conclusions are wrong, where the Bible supports this sort of behavior on behalf of Christ and His Gospel, and how the issues discussed in the BJUWeblog do not rise to the level of Matthew 23-Phariseeism and hypocrisy.

Christ, Paul, Stephen, and the New Testament cast confronted evil men regularly, especially evil men within the church. The Bible is clear regarding the standards God imposes on Christian leadership. Christ was clear: By their fruits ye shall know them.

Yes, Christians are fallible but that is no excuse for cloaking evil doing by labeling it "Bible policy" or engaging in a pattern of self-serving lying, racial bigotry, religious bigotry and hypocrisy, etc., clothing it in the Gospel of Christ.

Thanks for your comments. Please include substantive answers to my questions with supporting facts from others in future comments.

mark fitzhenry

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