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« A Peek behind the scenes of BJU's interracial dating ban, Part VI, HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? | Main | The Jonesian Response to Biblical Correction, Part I »

March 29, 2007

Comments

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Wounded by BJU

Just want to encourage you to finish this website. I think people should know what they're getting into when they send their children to this school.

bju student

You are amazing. I want to learn the art of saying lots of stuff without saying anything at all. Good skill you have there.

Mark Fitzhenry

Thanks for the comment, "bju student." Yes, I agree. (Note my last post). There is a great deal of fluff. Editing takes time and effort. Interested in helping, "bju student"? It seems like you have already learned to say "stuff without saying anything at all." I find it interesting to note that you avoided using your name and you studiously avoided commenting on the 'non-fluff,' the facts and the quotes within the site. Of course, "bju student," you can't comment on the Joneses' duplicity because it would either expose you as a Matthew-23 pharisaical Jonesian sychophant or you would be shipped for disloyalty. You are simply a product of BJU's pagan philosophies and you have embraced their vain deceit. In failing to address the facts within BJU Exposed, you have simply proven one of my observations about the bju-crowd: they are never bothered by facts and there is no Jonesian error, sin, abuse, or biblical principle that Jonesian idolaters cannot disregard. Prove all things. Call me in 20 or 30 years - after you have harvested the fruits of the Jonesian leaven sown in their graduates and preacher boys - and perhaps we can have some intelligent discourse. Mark

Alan Smith

l just came across your site for the first time. It makes interesting reading. l was a member of a different fundamentalist church for ten years, which l left it 20 years ago. The whole time l was reading your article, l felt you were describing my former church (some minor details obviously don't apply), a surreal feeling. It seems human nature and hypocracy is alive and kicking in every Christian church. As you point out, a Christian is one who follows Christ (the most basic definition of a Christian), rather than a man or a institution. Today l'm a "independent Christian", ie a stay at home Christian. God answers my prayers and blesses me. Going to church is not a end to itself, but rather a means to a end. If the church enviroment is toxic rather than life enhencing, going to church is then anti-life ie a sin.

Regards

Been there, done that

I have found this website to be absolutely fascinating! I grew up in "BJU-churches" (where the pastors were grown at BJ and attempted to run their churches like mini-BJU's). When I attended BJU, it was nothing different than from how I'd grown up. Having graduated and lived in the real world for a while, I have realized that there are some serious flaws with the university. I won't say that I won't let my children go to school there, but if they express the interest we will be having a lengthy discussion about the school. I also find it most interesting that in their "modern cults" class, they meet all the characteristics of a modern cult that are given.

Michael Mullen RN

I am the son of a Baptist Preacher who was trained at BJU. I, also like my Father and his Brothers, attended BJU. I loved every second I was there. The rules were not hard for me becuase I had been trained by my Dad to live my life seperated from the world. I did not miss the rock music, dancing, movie houses,alcohol, near naked women, and bars/partying, because my life was given to our Lord and his Word. Those things made me unhappy. To this day they still make me unhappy. I find true happiness and fullfillment in walking with my Lord.
I never found all the rules at BJU to be nothing more than institutional rules. They were not rules for me to take with me and live by. BJU never tried to teach me they were to be taken outside the gates. They were rules made so 5000 people could live together in peace.
IS BJU a perfect institution. NO. There is no such place. Do I think the Jones make mistakes at times. YES. Just ask them they will tell you they make mistakes. Do I think some of the teachers are rude and at times any thing but loving. YES. But, name one school where that is not true. Name one church where that is not true. WE are all just sinners saved by grace, trying to serve the Lord the best we can. When I look at my life and ask myself if I am doing more for the Lord than the Jones Family I have to admit I am not. If you looked at your life and asked yourself the same question you may discover the same answer I found. I can not cast stones at the Jones Family. Do I worship them? NO, Do I have great respect for the work they have done over the last 80 years. YES.
There are many institutions and so called leaders that are doing much to destroy this nation and the Churches we so love. Perhaps we should turn all our efforts towards those who are trying to destroy all we hold dear. Perhaps we should support and encourage those who spend their lives sending out Preachers and Missonaries to save the lost. If a house is divided how can it stand.
Michael K. Mullen RN, proud Son of Rev. Waldo K. Mullen
What is your name?

Editor: Thank you for your comments, Mike. My name is Mark Fitzhenry. To some extent, I agree with your comments about many of the rules. Regarding the interracial rule, the Joneses marketed this rule as based upon "Bible policy". In doing so, they became heretics. When they were challenged in 2000, Bob Jones III lied repeatedly about the history of the rule, that it was "meaningless" to BJU (they expelled people, Mike); that they hadn't tried to support the rule from Scripture (Dr. Neal wrote a 1996 Scripture-based defense pamphlet in favor of Bob's interracial dating policy); that five or six generations of students hadn't heard the Joneses' beliefs of racial purity preached or taught at BJU when that was a lie, etc.

Can you name one New Testament character (besides Judas, Alexander, Hymaneus, etc.) who was more unfit to speak the truth and to train young people to spread the Gospel of Christ than Bob Jones III?

The Joneses/BJU purport to operate a "Christian school". Yet, much of what they propagate is unChristian and wholly out of character with the Gospel of Christ.

My point in writing "Beware the Leaven" was to highlight the similarities between the hypocritical Pharisees detailed by Christ in Matthew 15 and 23 and BJU, the Joneses, and the products that they produce.

Something strange has been happening in BJU-styled fundamentalism for years. There is a pervasive leaven, an inordinate personal loyalty to the Joneses and an anti-Christian institutional loyalty that seems to characterize so many within the BJU family.

Yes, all institutions have problems. And, yes, nobody is perfect. However, healthy institutions and honest Christians acknowledge their sinful failings, beg forgiveness when they lie and/or hurt others, and try to "Do right!" It would be wrong for us as Christians to excuse Gospel-preacher Bob Jones III's sins of lying, unbiblical division, and perversion of his religious frock simply because nobody is perfect and people make "mistakes". (While lying about what the Bible teaches and what BJU teaches may be a "mistake," most Christians recognize lying as "sin".) The accepted standards for a Gospel minister are quite a bit higher than for, say, a used car salesman.

The Joneses/BJU have failed emulate honest Christians or healthy institutions for many years. Unfortunately, many have been leavened by their examples. Mark Fitzhenry

Michael Mullen RN

Mark, please tell me what has made you so angry. One thing I learned growing up in the home of a Baptist minister was to listen very carefully when people start to complain or fight to change things in the church. Our Lord in his all knowing wisdom told how to tell when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit. So I listened and watched the people that were giving my Pastor/Dad a hard time. If they came with a humble spirit, If they came kindly intreating my Dad, I knew they were most likely men of God who wanted the best for the Church. If they came mad and upset, unwilling to listen to reason. If they were full of anger, and there was no love in thier voice, I knew the holy spirit was not in their hearts. I knew the Devil had sent them to work against the Church.
So again I ask you why is your writting so full of anger. If I am miss reading you, please forgive me. As you know it is easy to miss read a persons intentions in a written letter or paper. But, I do not read any intention to help make things better at BJU. I do not read any intention to help the reader in any way. I only read your anger. I do not see any loving attempt to help the Jones Family see the wrong they must have done to you.
Am I aware that DR. Bob Sr. held the oppionion that people of color were the most happy when they were working with their hands. Yes I know he said that. I too can read. Do I remember hearing Jokes about people of color in the Baptist Churches I grew up in? Yes I do remember that. Am I proud that this took place. NO I am not. Are there current members of congress that tried with all their might to keep blacks out of our schools? Yes there are. Am I proud that we have all grown to a place of new understanding and wisdom. Am I proud that I now attend a church that has both Black and White members. Yes I am very proud. Were our Grandfathers wrong. Yes they were wrong. We as a nation, and a Church, have grown much since those days. I am not sure what you want the Current Jones Family to do now. Are they at fault for their fathers ways. Are we all at fault for our fathers ways. Are many black leaders right for asking for forgivenss over and over? I am not sure that is really going to help anyone. The past is the past. Thank God we are no longer like that. Thank God BJU is no longer like that. So, let your anger go. Learn to forgive and move on. Life is to short for all that anger and hate. You may have become all that you have spent so much time hating, and fighting. BJU has moved on. The school no longer holds to such teachings or rules. But, you Sir seem to be stuck in hate. It is the past. The fight is over. Put your arms down and enjoy the knowledge that the world is a much different place now.

Mike Mullen

Michael Mullen

Dear Brothers in Christ,

Our Dear Lord made it very clear in scripture that we are not to drag each other into court. It is also very clear that the reason for this is to not bring shame and reproach on the name of the Lord. The Devil is constantly looking for ways to discredit those who choose to serve him. Our Lord does not want the world to see our dirty laundry. Yes: we do have dirty laundry. No: we are not to hange it out for all the world to see. Brothers this blog is just a close line with lots of dirty laundry for all the world to see, laugh, and scorn at. I humbly beg you to please take this close line down. You are only giving the Devil and his friends ammunition to fire back at all of us. The Body of Christ does not need this reproach. Find another way. Send out a news letter to those who like such. Start a magazine. Mail out tapes/DVD/CDs. But not this open public forum. That is exactly what the court was in Chrisr day: a open public forum. The scripture is clear. If you continue this open public display you will again show who you really are. A real, Born Again, lover of Christ would never do anything to hurt the Body of Christ.

Michael Mullen RN son of Rev. Waldo K. Mullen
Warner Robins Ga.

Editor responds: Thank you for your input, Michael. Actually, Christ's commands in Matthew 5: 23-26 indicate that those - like Bob Jones III and BJU - who become aware that they have wronged another brother, should unhesitatingly take steps to reconcile with that wronged brother before conducting anymore religious activity.

Christ goes on to admonish stubborn, disobedient, unrepentant brethren - again, like Bob Jones III and his minions at BJU - who fail to seek reconciliation: "...Agree with thin adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing."

Paul "withstood Peter to his face" regarding Peter's unbiblical conduct in Galatians 2. Not only was this done publicly without regard to the status of onlookers, it was preserved in perpetuity. He did the same thing with Alexander, Hymaneus, and the Cretians. To suggest that Bob Jones III be handled differently is cultish.

Paul teaches in I Timothy 5 that sinful, unrepentant religious leaders - and, while Bob Jones III is a leader, he is neither elder in name or qualification; his status is as a non-church, extra-biblical religious business leader - are to be "rebuke[d] before all, that others also may fear."

Bob Jones Sr. said, "Some people say, 'Don't say anything. You can't was dirty linen in public." But I say, 'It's better to wash dirty linen in public than to not wash it at all!"

If I am not mistaken, and the examples are legion, the Joneses/BJU have never been shy about blasting other Christians publicly with apparently no regard for the note of the world. Think about it, Michael. Have you forgotten the time when Bob Jones Jr., the university chancellor, publicly called first lady Betty Ford "a slut"?

In effect, Michael, your approach of ignoring the Joneses'/BJU's evil doing has simply encouraged more evil doing. The Joneses/BJU aren't accountable to any structure of biblical authority other than brethren like you and me and your preacher father. And, you and your father seem disinclined to point the Nathanic finger at the Joneses/BJU when they sin.

The publicity Bob Jones III and BJU attracted with their interracial marriage ban bigotry and deception during the 2000 presidential election amounted to several million times the publicity this site attracts. If you think such publicity hurt the cause of Christ, you should take those concerns to Bob Jones III and perhaps your father. It is a strange thing that the voices of preachers like your father have been so silent regarding the racial and religious bigotry of the Joneses/BJU and Bob Jones III's lying to cover up the same.

The Joneses/BJU have brought reproach upon the name of Christ. If they do not renounce the hidden things of dishonesty in their religious practices, the body of Christ has a duty to denounce the Joneses/BJU as false representatives of the Gospel of Christ.

I don't doubt that you disapprove of me and the facts that ply the pages of this site. I have never met a Jonesian who approved of anyone who exposed Jonesian sins.

It seems to me that you, and perhaps your preacher dad, have, by your apparent silence regarding the sinful conduct of Bob Jones III and BJU, become partakers of other men's sins.

Mark

Michael Mullen

Mark,

There is a big difference between what you are doing and what Paul and Christ did when they went after the religious leaders of their day. These religous leaders were not members of the New Testiment Church. They did not see Jesus as the Christ. When John told the King he was living in Sin with his brothers wife he was not admonishing a member of the Body Of Christ. When Paul told Peter he was wrong about wanting to circumsize new converts he did so in a letter to the Church. Not in a puplic open forum for all the world to see.
You sir have no respect for the Body Of Christ. You do not care what the scriptures says about such puplic displays of church laundry. I would have all the respect in the World for you if you were doing this in a scriptural manner. One of my Uncles tried to convence DR. Bob the 3rd that the school should take a more Baptist stance in their Bible classes. For a while he was not welcomed on campus. My Uncle has my deepest respect due to the fact he did it according to scripture. He sent letters and phone calls. He did not try to make a name for him self via a puplic forum. He did not drag this out for all the world to see.
One more time I beg you to listen to the teachings our lord and take your battle direct to the Jones Family.
I also suggest you take one more look at Christ as he is bent over writting in the sand. Perhaps you should put your stones down and also walk away.

Michael Mullen Son of Rev.Waldo K. Mullen
Warner Robins Ga.

Michael,

Paul withstood Peter publicly to his face. Christ publicly withstood the leaders of the Church of the living God at that time.

Regarding addressing the Joneses personally, I have a stack of unanswered letters, refused certified letters, and ignored telephone calls.

Bob Jones III is an unrepentant heretic, one who causes unbiblical divisions in order to further the interests of his family's business. As such, he is to be "marked" and "avoided".

We are commanded to reject an heretic after the second admonition. We are not bound to treat as a brother one like Bob Jones III who publicly spreads lies about others and about what God's Word teaches and then evades the corrective/disciplinary Matthew 18:15-17 process. We are to treat him as an heathen. Does your father follow these biblical commands? Or, does he ignore them and enjoy the patronage of the Joneses/BJU with all the other Baptist preachers within the BJU orbit?

If you want to argue that Bob Jones III is, and has been over the past 30 years, an obedient, submissive Christian, good luck, Michael. The facts don't support such an assumption. I'm waiting for you to cite some facts to support your pre-suppositions.

Perhaps you are ignorant of Martin Luther and the reformation. Certainly you are not ignorant of the many public controversies prosecuted by the Joneses/BJU against others. Are you also ignorant of the public nature of the interracial marriage rule controversy. It played out in the world press for all to see. If true believers are silent in such public controversies, what will the world think about us and our silence regarding these issues in which Bob Jones III/BJU have used God's Word to justify their bigotry and dishonesty?

We are simply going to have to agree to disagree, Michael. I do, however, see what your approach has wrought: a thoroughly froward family business.

Meditate on these comments from the former head of the BJU history department, Dr. Ed Panosian:

"Wherever truth exposes error, error will oppose truth, and truth will be drawn into conflict. The believer must both stand and advance against the enemy. Although controversy is not to be sought, it must be accepted. He cannot ignore strife, though it is not of his own making. Love is a noble virtue, but Christian love is love in the truth...modern history affords ample opportunity for the teacher to illustrate our final lesson, that Satan's method is to counterfeit the true...We are conditoned to regard the "good" in every mixture of good and evil, when as discerning Christians, we should regard the evil. Few would value the scraps of food in a garbage can. Just as the good food is totally contaminated by its association with the bad, so is whatever good may seem to be in a spiritual mixture. In fact, the prescence of the good makes the evil more subtly dangerous."

Mark

Michael Mullen

Mark,

You have not heard one thing I have said so far. So I am all out of available pearls. But you, on the other hand seem to have a very large stock pile of mud. I am sure you will continue to sling it. I am sure you will continue with great glee to muddy-up the body of Christ before the entire world. Mark, I promise You I will pray for you each morning as I start mt day. I will pray that you will desire the fruits of the spirit in your life. I will pray that you start using your time and enery for Good of the Gospel. I will pray that you will begin to see that you have become that very thing you are so fixated on.

Just so you know: The less than wise things that Dr. Bod Jr would say from time to time made me sad. I wished he would not say them. You sir have become all you accuse him of. . You say things that bring harm to the body of Christ. You fight other Brothers in Christ just like you accuse him of. You bring division to the Body of Christ just as you accuse the Jones of. You refuse to admit your wrong doings. You refuse to follow the scriptures that forbid such pulic display of Church in-fightings. You Sir, have become that which you hate. I am asking you now for a puplic appology for your disdane for Christ teachings regarding this subject. Again: you will not do so because you have becaome that very thing you so desperately fight and hate.

Mike Mullen Son of Waldo K. Mullen
Warner Robins Ga.

From: mfitzhenry@comcast.net
Subject: Your comments
Date: June 3, 2008 7:49:56 AM EDT
To: mmullen@nationalnrenal.com

Mike,
Appreciate your concerns for me.

It sure is strange how that Bob Jones III can twist the Bible's clear teaching against bigotry and make a federal, Supreme Court case out of his racial bigotry before the unsaved, and those who rebuke Bob/BJU are the ones accused of airing dirty linen before the world by the BJU crowd.

Winston Churchill once said, "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." I have met many within the BJU orbit who were guided by misplaced personal loyalty to the Joneses and institutional idolatry towards BJU. You appear no different than them.

And, so it is with the Joneses and BJU and those whose faiths they have undermined. The truth hurts, Michael. The Joneses and BJU have betrayed our trust in a sweeping manner. The Emperor has no clothes and the Joneses and BJU are not clothed in righteousness. The Joneses lied about the racial dating ban being based on "Bible policy". Bob III lied about not trying to base their rule on Scripture. Bob III lied about five or six generations of students having never heard the rule preached or talked about. But, the real leaven of dishonesty and hypocrisy occurred when the administrators, staff, faculty, students, and university family detected Bob III's lies on Larry King Live and supported his lies through their statement and through their silent assent. This hurt the Body of Christ and the Cause of Christ. I will not support Bob Jones III's lies or the dishonesty of BJU through my silence anymore.

I have recounted the truth about the Jonses/BJU, exposed their evil doing, and revealed the leaven with which they have poisoned the faiths of thousands of young people. That is what you refuse to address and explains why you feel the need to accuse me of hate, etc. You accuse me of hate but, it seems, you seem to hate the truth about the Joneses/BJU and those who make manifest their evil doing. Further, you seek to silence me while you and your preacher father and a host of others who are hanging on to the coattails of BJU wink at their evil doing. The truth is, I think that you hate the truth about the Joneses and BJU especially since you cannot forthrightly give an answer of defense for either.

Bob Jones Sr. once preached from chapel, "You want to know where a man stands with God? You have only to ask him one question: 'What do you think about this school?'" I have observed that this philosophy was passed on to Bob Jr., Bob III, the staff, students, and the university family. As I have read your comments, I have observed that you seem to have been leavened by this philosophy. My standing with God depends upon my relationship with Jesus Christ and His Word.

You are (biblically) wrong regarding your dismissive, behind closed doors approach to Jonesian evil doing. That approach has encouraged the Joneses/BJU in their racial bigotry, in their teaching of 2nd and 3rd degree separation, their tolerance of Masons (worshipers of Lucifer) on their board, their use of deceit in furthering their business interests, their abuse of the brethren, etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum. Liars, even Jonesian liars, are not very good representatives of the Gospel of Christ. I believe that all Christians have a responsibility to point this out so that the world will not be confused.

Mike, we aren't getting anywhere. You know what you know, though you seem to be short on facts and scriptural support. I am a bad Christian in your eyes, full of hate and evil intent and the Joneses are unassailable patriarchs whose beliefs, influence, and practices are beyond earthly review. If you are so concerned about not airing dirty linen in public, why don't you upbraid the Joneses when they engage in the practice?

You are quite naive concerning that nature of the Joneses and BJU. I would suggest that if you want to do something for the Joneses and BJU that you sign the petition for the Joneses to apologize for the interracial dating ban and the deceit Bob III used to minimize the fall out on BJU and himself. Write Bob Jones III and ask him to correct his public lies on Larry King Live. When he excoriates you for your impertinence, send me a copy of his letter along with a pair of asbestos gloves!

You also might pen a letter to Bob III and the Board asking them to beg forgiveness from Betty Ford for the previous chancellor publicly calling her "a slut" from the corporation's platform in front of the student body and over WMUU. I hope you aren't a life member to the BJUAA. If you are, you won't be for long. At BJU, they don't like anyone who rebukes them or even hints that they have done wrong....especially when they have done wrong.

I have published your comments up to now. I am going to stop publishing them in the future. I will not be responding to you because I do not have the time. Please do not submit anymore comments to the blog or I will be forced to block your access.

Grace and Peace to you, Michael.

Mark

Start a Pro-BJU blog, Michael, if you think it will help you counter act my blog.

Michael Mullen

Mark,

It is Mike Again. I can not get you off my mind. I worry about you. You are not the first person I have met with this overt hate for BJU and other institutions. The common trate you all have is a lack of peace in your daily life. A friend of mine has a Dad just like you. He just hates BJU. HE talks about his hate for BJU often. When he does talk about BJU the dark unresolved hatred just burns forth from him. It consumes him. It tainted his entire ministry. This preacher has now left the ministry and has gone crazzy. He left his wife and is having sex with other women. His Family is torn apart. He left many Church Members in a wake of pain and hurt. Many of those people will never enter the door of another Church. I tell you all this because I worry you will fall into the same pit. Hate is a powerful force that destroys the life of the person who holds it. Let it go Mark. Before it destroys you.

Michael Mullen

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